As posted yesterday, the nice lady who made That Shirt defended herself and Dr. Matt Talor of Comet Landing fame on her blog. Most of the comments on that blog were positive, but there were a few from the troll I smashed yesterday, assorted other SJW apologists and other random idiots. Consensus of opinion seems to be we'd all like to buy one of Those Shirts please, so we can get on with annoying the SJWs. If Elly gets busy, she can make a tidy sum of money off this Shirtstorm farce.
But then there was this one, by Mr. "Malcolm Winter", hopefully not his real name but one never knows. Quote:OBVIOUSLY in a free country we do protect the right of the KKK to play dress-up. The United States has always done this. Canada's record is a bit more checkered, but the general rule is yes, we protect people and groups we find disgusting in the name of Free Speech."Mr. Winter" made several comments which I will cherry pick some snippets of to reproduce his "argument", such as it is.Pavel Bansky - I'm honestly curious. Would you protect a KKK member's right to don KKK regalia?
Surely I can't make judgements on Matt based solely on his wearing of a shirt that many found offensive (myself included) or on Elly for making it. It seems obvious that Matt and Elly (like most people who make mistakes) are good people with good intentions. However, my issue is not with those actions but with how they and others have responded to how others have *experienced* those actions, regardless of intention.
This is EXACTLY why there aren't more women in STEM. Because when women raise legitimate concerns about the way they're being treated, instead of taking some time to think about how one's actions affect others who have very different histories and life experiences, one instead attempts to justify those actions by saying that any other perception of the action is illegitimate.
"STEM" is Science, Technology, Engineering and Medicine careers. The stalking horse here is that women are fewer than men in these careers.
Mr. Winter says that's because White Men that run everything in STEM are mean, and they just won't LISTEN, and the women just don't get an even break. And that's why Dr. MAtt Taylor was asking for a full court international internet pillory for wearing Elly Prizeman's shirt. He didn't think about how his actions would "affect others who have very different histories and life experiences".
Other commenters were having none of that, and pointed out the obvious holes:
Other commenters were having none of that, and pointed out the obvious holes:
Winter, there are men being offended because women are not covering their faces in public. Does it make it alright, then?If you are prescribing Dr. Taylor's dress code you are inevitably agreeing with men prescribing dress codes for women. Is that your intent?
Winter replies:
Pavel Bansky, I think that prescribing dress codes based on double standards that reinforce the oppression of (and violence toward) women is very different (and actually the opposite) of prescribing dress codes that send the message that reinforcing the oppression of women is NOT acceptable.
Yes, he really did say that HIS dress codes are proper and correct because they reduce oppression, where as Mooselimb dress codes are bad and wrong because they increase oppression. Zero awareness, zero thought that maybe -any- prescribed dress code is an oppression and an abridgement of basic freedom.
Also this:
I think maybe you are all making the same assumptions about my argument. However, my argument is about structural oppression, not individual oppression, although the two are certainly related.
I left [STEM] because of the lack of critical thought in STEM. I found that the rigid definition of critical thought as only whether something has scientific validity, accuracy, and/or precision as a deficient one.
Wait, what?
I've spent nearly three years of my life travelling and working in over 30 countries, most of which are "developing." I have seen a fair share of "real oppression" (whatever that means) and I find covert oppression just as insidious to society as overt oppression, perhaps even more so since it is so much harder to fix something most people can't see.
Dude must have been really hauling ass to live and work in over 30 countries in just three years. And he can see things that are invisible! Wow.
By "critical thought," I think perhaps Tracy Ore defines it best by including the identification and challenging of cultural assumptions, awareness of our place and time in our culture, searching for alternative ways of thinking, and developing a reflective analysis. All of this is something I never found in STEM and I know now that that's one of the many reasons I left.
Yes, engineers and programmers are not known for "including the identification and challenging of cultural assumptions" when trying to determine if the bridge will fall down or not. They're much more about validity, accuracy and precision. Because bridge falling down = bad.
I believe that gauging others' responses to my behavior as a result of my privilege and adjusting that behavior when I can is an important part of being a contributing member to society.
Yes, you are clearly a saint in your own mind. Except you and your little friends made super genius Matt Taylor grovel on international TV. So I'm thinking maybe you don't look so saintly from where I'm standing. You look more like the guys who throw acid on girls in Afghanistan.
See Malcolm, the point of a Free Country is that people are free to do what they want. Most particularly, people are free to do stuff that you don't like. Unless you can prove that their actions and expressions have harmed you personally. Which means they physically injured you or they cost you money.
Lucky for you, hurt feelings don't count. Because if they did, you and a lot of other Social Justice Warriors would owe Matt Taylor and Elly Prizeman a shitlocker full of money.
Lucky for you, hurt feelings don't count. Because if they did, you and a lot of other Social Justice Warriors would owe Matt Taylor and Elly Prizeman a shitlocker full of money.
You, Mr. Malcolm Winter, are an enemy of freedom. Consider your sins, and repent.
The Phantom
4 comments:
Bravo!
Well said.
Honestly, I can't believe anyone is dense enough to believe the definition of "critical thinking" should include some definition that sounds like it came out of a Gender Studies department.
Then again, based on the other arguments you shared, I can. If this guy worked in STEM, it was as a janitor at an engineering firm.
Hi Josh and T.L.
I think what scalds me the most about little Malcolm here is that he can't be assed to even summon a coherent argument. He doesn't understand what he's talking about, he just feeeeels that its perfectly ok to mob some guy on TV over a shirt because its a White guy on TV. The rest of this is some kind of vague, misty construction of large words that don't mean anything.
I have no hope of changing Little Malcolm's alleged mind, but I hope by laying his "argument" out line by line others can be convinced to stop supporting these odious SJWs. Its Fascism in a different bottle.
Phantom – I normally don’t pay attention to these witless Proglodyte wizzing matches but this one is indicative of a larger cancer in our society – that of a legion of soulless politicized androids who feel their little political proclivities are soooo universally correct (with no objective truth to prove so) and so dogmatically pious that they feel justified in slandering, threatening and/or bullying anyone who offends them by holding differing opinion – because these unenlightened boors are WRONG, and as the ubermensch gate keepers of the sacred Prog mythos, they must use all the available force of the mob and the government to eradicate “wrong thinking” people.
Now, that part I get, it’s closely linked to a lot of common human neurosis inherent in the prog culture war legions (megalomania, narcissism, sociopathy etc.) but as a person who directs my life by both logic and reason, what angers me is the weapons-grade stupid you have to be to ignore the gargantuan hypocrisy in the dogma of the “micro aggression” warriors which they ignore at great peril – that being that the greatest oppressor-aggressor in human history has been, and continues to be, the indoctrinated clanish mobs/hordes and the modern version of same – big government. Governments and mob piety have killed more people than disease and nature – yet these are the weapons of mass destruction the culture warrior plays with in their quest to oppress dissent from their narrow minded dogmas. Essentially it’s a mental disorder masquerading as a political dogma – an assumptuous “correct” political dogma accepted on faith alone– and it puts a cohesive society/culture in turmoil/peril. Much like the puritan inquisitions and witch hunts.
Frankly, it’s always been apparent so called culture war politics attract moral defectives and mentally unbalanced people- no real sin in that as long as they implode in on themselves and not others, - however when a clan/tribe, movement of aggressive sociopaths attempt to impose their bizzaro values on the rest of us well adjusted folks who just want to be left in peace by force of the mob and leviathan state, it’s time to start culling out the zombie herd. I suggest a WMD Reason gas or a logic bomb – just the thing for out of control non sequitur Proglodyte gibbering.
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