Downloaded my Hugo voters packet today. First thing I read was Ms. Marvel Volume 1: No Normal by Wilson, Alphona and Wyatt.
Plot synopsis: Little 16 year old Pakistani Mooselimb girl who lives in New Jersey gets magic powers by non-explained magic, spends most of the book fighting with Mom and Dad because they won't let her go out at night to parties and stuff. (At 16. In New Jersey. What squares!) Oh and she does some super hero stuff in there somewheres. Grrrls Rule!
Morals of the story: 1) Mooselimbs are nice. 2) White American people are mean and stoopid. 3) Its totally kewl for 16 year old girls to ignore their parents, keep secrets, sneak out to have adventures and everyth9ing like that because Grownups are all lame an stoopid.
Except there's no way Marvel would have told this story about a Catholic white girl, their printing press would have burst into flames at presenting Catholicism in such a sympathetic way.
Yeah, other than Storm of the X-Men, and Sunspot, and Nightcrawler, and Daredevil, and Captain America, when has Marvel Comics ever published a positive depiction of a Catholic?
ReplyDeletePlease note that all the characters you just mentioned are from the 1960s and 1970s. Plus didn't Nightcrawler break with the Catholic Church at some point these last ten years?
ReplyDeleteIt's been a long time since churches were depicted in Marvel comics as anything other than halls for gay weddings or spooky backdrops for demonic activity.
I'm sure you'll be able to find one or two exceptions in some minor title in the last twenty years. The exception proves the rule.
"Yeah, other than Storm of the X-Men, and Sunspot, and Nightcrawler, and Daredevil, and Captain America, when has Marvel Comics ever published a positive depiction of a Catholic?"
ReplyDeleteAll your examples are decades old from writers that no longer write for Marvel. Maybe if these new writers were half as good as them, Marvel's comic sales wouldn't currently be in the toilet.
Indeed. :)
ReplyDeleteMaybe if Marvel Comics wasn't run by a bunch of hipster liberals they'd allow their writes to come up with something that wasn't SJW checkbox dreck.
Funny how SJWs never seem to disapprove blood splashes and weird sexual shit in KIDS comic books. One might almost suspect an ulterior motive.
"really average art"??? Alphona is easily one of the top three artists who have been working in superhero comics for the last three years. Opeña is probably up there, too, and... Mignola, if he counts?
ReplyDeleteI'll happily agree that the art in Ms Marvel has gone downhill since Alphona left, but those first issues are breathtaking. The art is loose and lively and expressive, with solid anatomy. I was really sad to see him go.
"Morals of the story: 1) Mooselimbs are nice."
ReplyDeleteIt is extraordinarily trashy of you to call Muslims "Mooselimbs."
"2) White American people are mean and stoopid."
Absolutely nowhere is this message suggested anywhere in the Ms. Marvel series. You are imagining this. Stop being overly sensitive and seeing yourself as a victim.
"3) Its totally kewl for 16 year old girls to ignore their parents, keep secrets, sneak out to have adventures and everyth9ing like that because Grownups are all lame an stoopid."
Congratulations, you just described every teen superhero story ever made.
Daredevil's Catholicism continues to be portrayed in a positive light, including on the Netflix series which premiered only a couple months ago. Your martyr-complex idea that Marvel would never dare portray Catholics in a positive light in this day and age is simply removed from reality.
Martin said: "I'll happily agree that the art in Ms Marvel has gone downhill since Alphona left, but those first issues are breathtaking."
ReplyDeleteMy taste runs to John Byrne. Ms. Marvel is muddy looking. It might be ok in an 8.5"x11" panel, but not in a teensy little box in a comic.
Tastes, as they say, differ.
Christopher Souza said: "It is extraordinarily trashy of you to call Muslims "Mooselimbs.""
ReplyDeleteI could have called them what they really are, which is semi-literate fundamentalist hillbillies who treat their women worse than draft animals, or a bunch of violent cousin-marrying retards with no impulse control, but I went with Mooselimbs because its less confrontational.
I strongly doubt you'd be outraged if I called Christians "Xtians" as I see the cool kids doing these days, so I'll take your comment with all the weight it deserves.
"Absolutely nowhere is this message suggested anywhere in the Ms. Marvel series. You are imagining this. Stop being overly sensitive and seeing yourself as a victim."
All the White characters in the comic are assholes, and markedly so. There is one exception. Exception proves the rule.
"Congratulations, you just described every teen superhero story ever made."
I'm describing -this- story, and the entire thing revolves around disrespect for family, tradition, basic personal honor (lying, y'know) and pretty much everything that a kid could possibly do to make their lives and the lives of their whole family suck.
That there are other such stories from Marvel does not help your argument.
"Daredevil's Catholicism continues to be portrayed in a positive light, including on the Netflix series which premiered only a couple months ago."
A) I disagree that Daredevil's Catholicism is portrayed positively, more like this huge problem he has to get around, that constantly sneaks up on him and kicks his ass.
B) The Netflix series has zero to do with the people doing Marvel comics. Not even the same company.
C)Stan Lee maintains control of all the Marvel film business (last I heard anyway) and Stan Lee is the reason those movies don't suck. Except apparently the Fantastic Four franchise, that one looks like its going to suck again. I'd prefer to be wrong about that, we shall see.
Marvel comics generally have been very pro-atheist the last ten or so years, and very anti-religion. That's what makes this nice, soft wash view of MOOSELIMB religion stand out all the more starkly. Show me something about -any- Christian denomination shown the same way in a Marvel comic, consistently, in the last ten years. Good luck in your search.
"I could have called them what they really are, which is semi-literate fundamentalist hillbillies who treat their women worse than draft animals, or a bunch of violent cousin-marrying retards with no impulse control, but I went with Mooselimbs because its less confrontational."
ReplyDeleteI'm genuinely curious: do you believe this about all Muslims? Most Muslims? A vocal minority? Your language implies all, but this is such a huge, sweeping generalization that I have a hard time you actually believe the literal meaning of what you wrote.
I'm also curious: do you know any Muslims IRL?
Do you believe G. Willow Wilson, the writer of Ms. Marvel and a Muslim woman, is a "semi-literate fundamentalist" who believes women shouldn't have equal rights to men?
"I strongly doubt you'd be outraged if I called Christians "Xtians" as I see the cool kids doing these days,"
It would depend on your intent. "Xtians" isn't always meant to be derogatory; sometimes it's just meant as shorthand. "Mooselimbs" takes longer to write than "Muslims," so your only intent was to deride and mock. At least one entry here on Urban Dictionary is written from the perspective of a Christian who embraces the term:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=xtian
But I have mostly seen it used in a derogatory fashion, and I have called that out when I have seen it. You are assuming a lot about me based on nothing.
"All the White characters in the comic are assholes, and markedly so. There is one exception. Exception proves the rule."
I'm not going to bother breaking down every character right now. I will simply point out that Ms. Marvel herself idolizes white characters such as Carol Danvers and Spider-Man, so the notion that the comic has some kind of anti-white bias is simply ludicrous.
"I'm describing -this- story, and the entire thing revolves around disrespect for family, tradition, basic personal honor (lying, y'know) and pretty much everything that a kid could possibly do to make their lives and the lives of their whole family suck."
So Ms. Marvel is bad because it celebrates Islam, and it's bad because the main character isn't sufficiently obedient to her Muslim family. Got it.
Also, you're still acting like the concept of a secret identity or a teen superhero automatically makes a work morally suspect. In which case...I have no idea why you are reading comic books about teen superheroes in the first place. Where is your post condemning the original run of Spider-Man?
"That there are other such stories from Marvel does not help your argument."
It absolutely does, because you are acting as if having a protagonist "ignore their parents, keep secrets, sneak out to have adventures" is somehow unique to "SJW" stories (meaning, apparently, stories about people not in the same in-group as you), when it's literally one of the oldest themes in comic books. You're reaching for reasons to hate this story. I don't believe for a second you're mad that this story has a protagonist who does these things; you're made that the protagonist is a Muslim girl.
Christopher Souza said: "I'm genuinely curious: do you believe this about all Muslims?"
ReplyDeleteYou are genuinely a prat sir. You have my entire blog to peruse, yet you chose to ask this insulting question in that ever so reasonable passive aggressive tone. Read what is written here since 2005, and come to a conclusion on your own.
"I'm also curious: do you know any Muslims IRL?"
I know many.
"You are assuming a lot about me based on nothing."
Indeed. Irritating, isn't it?
"Do you believe G. Willow Wilson, the writer of Ms. Marvel and a Muslim woman, is a "semi-literate fundamentalist" who believes women shouldn't have equal rights to men?"
I have no knowledge of Ms. Wilson whatsoever. However if she is a Muslim, her co-religionists are guilty of heinous crimes against women.
Case in point: Aqsa Parvez. Local Toronto case, look it up. That terrible woman Pamella Geller has made three commemorative monuments to Aqsa so far, in partial recompense for her family denying her so much as a headstone.
They also have been capturing Christian women in Iraq and selling them into slavery. This is the backdrop of fact against which Islam stands these days. Of late I have seen zero examples of famous Mooselimbs raging against the injustice.
Except Ayan Hirisi Ali. That girl kicks ass.
"So Ms. Marvel is bad because it celebrates Islam, and it's bad because the main character isn't sufficiently obedient to her Muslim family. Got it."
This method of argumentation is boring, sir. I said no Marvel comic would have treated any Christian denomination to such a love letter. Your attempt to misconstrue what is clearly recorded above is childish.
"Also, you're still acting like the concept of a secret identity or a teen superhero automatically makes a work morally suspect."
So boring. The post has not changed.
"It absolutely does, because you are acting as if having a protagonist "ignore their parents, keep secrets, sneak out to have adventures" is somehow unique to "SJW" stories..."
I said that it is a major part of -this- story. You added the SJW part.
I'm saying that marketing comics TO KIDS where the major part of the story involves lying and sneaking around is morally suspect at best. Lying and sneaking hurts kids and it hurts families.
"You're reaching for reasons to hate this story. I don't believe for a second you're mad that this story has a protagonist who does these things; you're mad(e) that the protagonist is a Muslim girl."
Yes, I'm a hate filled hatey hating hater, therefore everything I say must be disregarded, misconstrued, trampled etc. and so forth. Good thing this is my blog, otherwise you'd be deleting my comments eh?
Its a stupid story, badly told, with so-so art. That the protagonist is a little Mooselimb girl is the only interesting thing about it. Like Kitty Pryde vs the demon in the X-Men, back in the day before the X-Men became about gender roles, gay weddings and two page blood splashes. Ms. Marvel could have been pretty cool, instead we get moronic, irritating SJW checkbox trash. Plus the usual lying and sneaking.
See, here's the thing you don't, or maybe can't understand Mr. Souza. It isn't Mooselimbs I'm having a problem with. You managed to utterly miss the point.
I have a problem with liberals. Liberals who lie about Mooselimbs pretty much constantly, as part of an ongoing campaign to make everything Mooselimbs do or say just rosy and happy with balloons and clowns and fluffy puppies.
I have a problem with liberals, who lie about everything from gender to the weather. They never ever stop with the lying.
Liberals who are, incidentally, ruining Marvel comics. Have been for twenty years.
I refuse to pay money for preachy Liberal propaganda, and I'm certainly not voting it a Hugo.